Hennepin green lane not "only" for bikes and buses anymore?

This topic contains 21 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of jimh jimh 1 year, 11 months ago.

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  • #788869
    Avatar of SDHO
    SDHO
    Participant

    I noticed that all those signs downtown on Hennepin that used to state “RIGHT LANE BIKES, BUSES & RIGHT TURNS ONLY” have been modified. The “only” is taped over, so now it’s just “RIGHT LANE BUSES, BIKES & RIGHT TURNS”. It’s still marked as a diamond lane, so I’m not sure if you could still get a ticket for driving a passenger vehicle in it or what. But I’m sure it’s no accident that they bothered to change all the signs.

    Think the like 2% of vehicles who actually followed the old signs were causing undue congestion?

Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
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  • #792006
    Avatar of Anonymous
    Anonymous
    Participant

    The city attorney decided that the limits on the sign were not enforceable so the signs were changed and drivers who stay in the right lane are not ticketed.

    #792007
    Avatar of SDHO
    SDHO
    Participant

    Interesting. (Were drivers ever actually ticketed?)

    If it’s not enforceable as is, why not convert them to “shoulders”? The notion of bus- and bike-only shoulders is widespread (buses by signage, bikes by legal default).

    #792009
    Avatar of Stoller
    Stoller
    Participant

    That lane on Hennepin was a bad idea, poorly implemented, and a complete clusterf*** from the outset. The cops never enforced the restrictions, and they never would have. The lane sharing transitions are half-baked, and the lousy paint job and signage add to the confusion. Also, the high volume of bus stops push you awkwardly into the left lane constantly. It could only have been designed by people who would never themselves ride through it.

    Personally, I miss the days of Hennepin center lane anarchy, but that’s unlikely to ever return. All in all, I much prefer the CRT bypass or even Nicollet or First (flawed as they both are) these days. However, it is a problem that there’s such poor access to those streets from West River Parkway. I hope they fix that to some degree in rejiggering Washington Avenue.

    #792010
    Avatar of jimh
    jimh
    Participant

    So now the signs mean exactly nothing in a legal sense – just like ‘sharrows’. I think they should be removed as they will cause confusion and distraction.

    #792011
    Avatar of SDHO
    SDHO
    Participant

    @jimh wrote:

    So now the signs mean exactly nothing in a legal sense – just like ‘sharrows’. I think they should be removed as they will cause confusion and distraction.

    The purpose of sharrows is not to provide any legal power, only to indicate to drivers and cyclists alike the optimal (and also legal) place to ride on the roadway.

    I guess I’d agree that as it is now, the signs should be removed, but I would like to see the green lane retained. What really bugs me about Hennepin is the fact that the outer lane switches back and forth between a width that is not possible to share laterally and a width that is. So cars (or buses) are chilling to your left on a wide portion, and then suddenly you need to merge to a single-file line.

    Keep the green lane, and fix the lane width variations. In the long term, of course, I think a curbed cycle track with bus stops between the cycle track and road would be best. See this example of that setup.

    #792012
    Avatar of omgmrj
    omgmrj
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    #792013
    Avatar of Stoller
    Stoller
    Participant

    Wow. 73 pages!!!

    I guess we did go on and on for a bit about that. And on and on and on and on…

    #792014
    Avatar of SDHO
    SDHO
    Participant

    @omgmrj wrote:

    You guys know it’s been like this for a long time right?.

    Weeeeird. Have been imagining an “only” there as I’ve read the sign for the past… two and a half years? I haven’t been regularly biking in Minneapolis that long.

    #792015
    Avatar of omgmrj
    omgmrj
    Participant

    Yeah. To summarize:

    First Ave is full of doors, pedestrians, limos, and snow piles.

    Hennepin could have maybe been a good design with proper enforcement, which we all know is nearly impossible to do in practice, and no matter how much they polish that turd, it’s never going to be great for bikes.

    Can we move on now? Or put further, original, revealing comments in the big thread?

    #792016
    Avatar of omgmrj
    omgmrj
    Participant

    @SDHO wrote:

    @omgmrj wrote:
    You guys know it’s been like this for a long time right?.

    Weeeeird. Have been imagining an “only” there as I’ve read the sign for the past… two and a half years? I haven’t been regularly biking in Minneapolis that long.

    Yes. It sucks, and it took away our privilege to obnoxiously knock and driver’s windows at red lights to tell them they’re bad people.

    #792017
    Avatar of SDHO
    SDHO
    Participant

    @omgmrj wrote:

    Yes. It sucks, and it took away our privilege to obnoxiously knock and driver’s windows at red lights to tell them they’re bad people.

    Pssh. Nothing takes that privilege away. Clearly the engineering intent is for them not to drive in that lane, even if it’s not legally enforceable.

    #792018
    Avatar of FreeRangeZombie
    FreeRangeZombie
    Participant

    that’s just fucking stupid. Not enforceable? uh…. hows abouts they put some cops there with walkies and call down to the cop cars two blocks down and say “ticket mofo #32 with the plate 123mofo. I gots it on video, so we’re good.” Just like they do with speeding tickets on a highway during a ticket sting operation. Doesn’t seem that hard, and it seems like free money to me.

    #792019
    Avatar of jimh
    jimh
    Participant

    Flame me if you will, but my sympathies were with the drivers. Too confusing, too many signs, too little time to make decisions and lane changes.

    #792020
    Avatar of FreeRangeZombie
    FreeRangeZombie
    Participant

    @jimh wrote:

    Flame me if you will, but my sympathies were with the drivers. Too confusing, too many signs, too little time to make decisions and lane changes.

    I’ve driven through downtown factors more than I’ve biked and I don’t find the signs confusing. Pretty straightforward actually. Even my first few times through. The only confusing part is what one-ways you have to take to get to point X.

    If you can’t understand the traffic signs and signals you probably shouldn’t be driving.

    #792021
    Avatar of Stoller
    Stoller
    Participant

    @FreeRangeZombie wrote:

    that’s just fucking stupid. Not enforceable? uh…. hows abouts they put some cops there with walkies and call down to the cop cars two blocks down and say “ticket mofo #32 with the plate 123mofo. I gots it on video, so we’re good.” Just like they do with speeding tickets on a highway during a ticket sting operation. Doesn’t seem that hard, and it seems like free money to me.

    Yeah, but you make it sound as though they want to.

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