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< Advocacy ~ 10 MPH Limits on the Cedar Lake & Kenilworth Trails |
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habberdash
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:59 pm |
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Broom Wagon FodderJoined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:17 pmPosts: 307Location: mplsduh
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just get a bunch of taggers out there to add another zero.
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castiron
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:00 pm |
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| SoigneurJoined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:02 pmPosts: 579Location: Saint Paul
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Property damage is the answer?
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habberdash
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:06 pm |
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Broom Wagon FodderJoined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:17 pmPosts: 307Location: mplsduh
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castiron wrote: Property damage is the answer?
YES.
kidding. of course.
edit: i just dont pay attention to that, especially if other bikers are going faster than 10mph....BUT, to ensure my status as NOT an asshole, i'd like to iterate that i will be present for any judicial action against the enforcement of these laws. (petition, rally, whatevs.)
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voidoid21
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:37 pm |
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Rides in bad weather just to taunt those who won'tJoined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:52 pmPosts: 1480Location: Midtown Phillips
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Folks, this is the perfect example of the need to advocate bicycles as a legitimate mode of transportation. These speed limits are imposed on trails with the MPRB or Three Rivers Park District because such trails are considered to be for recreational uses first and transportation second.
The MG was developed as a transportation bikeway and has no speed limit (that I'm aware of, at least). If there is a limit it is 30 mph.
We must not accept being relegated to third or fourth class citizens.
If this stuff keeps up in the face of massive increases in the number of cyclists, this town should change it's tag line to the City of Cars.
_________________ "Liquor bottles have to say where their contents are from, gas pumps don't. If people knew where gas was from maybe they'd drive less and drink more."
--Roadkill Bill |
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habberdash
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:40 pm |
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Broom Wagon FodderJoined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:17 pmPosts: 307Location: mplsduh
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ok, but what do we do?
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specq
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:52 pm |
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Sheldon WannabeJoined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:37 pmPosts: 153Location: St Paul
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habberdash wrote: just get a bunch of taggers out there to add another zero.
Better, but I'm not sure I can comply with that either.
Seriously, though, didn't anyone have wind that this was in the works? I feel like I've been suckerpunched.
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Radlerin
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:55 pm |
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Dances on the pedals in a most immodest wayJoined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 6:03 pmPosts: 5567Location: Funkytown
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specq wrote: Better, but I'm not sure I can comply with that either.
Same here, not even on my spinny mountain bike.
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Scot_Gore
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:07 pm |
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| Exists in the limbo between winning and DFL in every single alleycatJoined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:59 pmPosts: 395
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habberdash wrote: ok, but what do we do?
I've placed two calls. One to the City of Minneapolis Bicycle Bicyle Program office. They have not yet returned my call.
The second was to Transit for Livable Communities. My call was the first they had heard of the new speed limit markings. They shared my concerns that this could limit the usefullness of the trail for the transportational users. They were going to make some calls to gain understanding of how the need to limit the trail arose, what agency did (3 Rivers, City, somebody else). After that they would work on ways to address our shared concerns. They said they would get back to me with anything they learn (likely next week sometime) and asked that I also let them know anything I find out.
That's what I'm doing.......
I saw up above that somebody has already addressed this with their council person. If you live in the city, I think that would be a good thing to do.
Scot
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habberdash
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:15 pm |
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Broom Wagon FodderJoined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:17 pmPosts: 307Location: mplsduh
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Scot_Gore wrote: habberdash wrote: ok, but what do we do? I've placed two calls. One to the City of Minneapolis Bicycle Bicyle Program office. They have not yet returned my call. The second was to Transit for Livable Communities. My call was the first they had heard of the new speed limit markings. They shared my concerns that this could limit the usefullness of the trail for the transportational users. They were going to make some calls to gain understanding of how the need to limit the trail arose, what agency did (3 Rivers, City, somebody else). After that they would work on ways to address our shared concerns. They said they would get back to me with anything they learn (likely next week sometime) and asked that I also let them know anything I find out. That's what I'm doing....... I saw up above that somebody has already addressed this with their council person. If you live in the city, I think that would be a good thing to do. Scot
thanks, my comment wasn't snarky, i was actually curious. i'll look into it.
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KirkLogan
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:09 pm |
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Fender BenderJoined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:23 amPosts: 103Location: Edina commute to Minneapolis
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Scot_Gore wrote: habberdash wrote: ok, but what do we do? I've placed two calls. One to the City of Minneapolis Bicycle Bicyle Program office. They have not yet returned my call. The second was to Transit for Livable Communities....That's what I'm doing....... Scot
Scot: Thanks for doing this. I'll be interested to see the outcome. I will participate in any recommended communication to address this constructively. I agree with Voidoid's comments!
P.S. If "they" want to stencil something, how about "Pass with care" or something that is probably more mindful and more realistic? BTW, I have no speedometer on my bike and don't plan to add one. I am blissfully ignorant about how fast I am going, but I am keenly alert about how to pass others and give walkers a wide reign, even the ones with dogs on long leashes. We can all get along. And go 15 MPH or more when the time is right.
Last edited by KirkLogan on Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MacGyver
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:20 pm |
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Derby FodderJoined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:24 amPosts: 3571Location: Corcoran (the neighborhood)
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I live in Ward 9, which is represented by Gary Schiff. These two trails are not in his ward, but I live there and use the trails, which I think counts for something.
Gary's website:
http://www.garyschiff.com/
PDF map of Ward 9:
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/about/maps/ward9.pdf
How to find your own council member:
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/council/
Quote: Good afternoon Gary,
From your website, I learned that you have served on the Midtown Greenway Association and are participating in the Red Ribbon Ride. As a cyclist, I assume you are familiar with the Cedar Lake Trail and the Kenilworth Trail.
As of this morning, there are new â??10 MPHâ?? pavement markings on both the Kenilworth Trail and the Cedar Lake Trail. This concerns me greatly because these trails are used daily by large numbers of commuters. I have never noticed any speed limit markings on these trails previously, and I always assumed that there was no speed limitation (much like the Midtown Greenway).
I cannot see any benefit the speed limit provides, but I do see several consequences. Those that choose to ignore the limit and travel at their usual speed will eventually be cited for speeding. Trail users that obey the speed limit will experience increase travel times, discouraging bicycle commuting. Those that canâ??t justify the risk of citations or the added travel time will be encouraged to not use the trails, which is counterproductive for all parties involved. In addition to causing problems for existing commuters, these limits will also be a big deterrent to new commuters.
I entirely understand the speed limits in place around the lakes and along the river, where cyclists are sharing the trail with a significant number of walkers, runners, roller bladders, dog walkers, and children. The Cedar Lake Trail has a separate pedestrian path alongside the dedicated cycling paths, and neither the Cedar Lake Trail nor the Kenilworth Trail see quantities of non-cyclists similar to the lake/river trails.
I would really like to know what prompted these new speed limits to be posted, and what the reasoning behind this was. As far as I can tell, there are no benefits to trail users, and plenty of impairments. Minneapolis is currently a national leader with bicycle commuting and bicycle infrastructure. I would hate to see our constantly growing and improving system crippled by needless speed limits. These are bicycles, not speeding trucks. And the trails are used primarily by commuters and fast-paced recreational riders. If nothing else, I do not want to see this set as a precedent for other commuter trails in the area. I depend on my bicycle for transportation, and being arbitrarily limited to 10 MPH when on trails would cause some major headaches for me.
Please let me know what information you can gain about this situation.
Thank you for your time and concern, [MacGyver's name, address, and phone number]
_________________ My bike weighs more than yours.
bike-related calculators and utilities located at kstoerz.com |
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EvilAntiMartha
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:05 pm |
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Never got over the fun of spinning out on a Big WheelJoined: Mon May 07, 2007 3:38 pmPosts: 762Location: Whittier
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Hey Mac, can i nick your well thought out e-mail (with a couple of changes) and send it to my rep? I'm in Ward 6, it's Robert Lilligren, I believe. This is one case where it's a shame Zimmermann isn't still around. He'd be screeching about this.
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specq
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:27 pm |
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Sheldon WannabeJoined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:37 pmPosts: 153Location: St Paul
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That letter is very well thought out. I was going to suggest that we perhaps put our heads together and draft something we can all use. But this is pretty damned good with just a single head (as far as I know)
I detoured from work on the way home to check it out for myself (I was going to post pictures but my cameraphone died on me).
This just doesn't make sense.
The very first 10mph stencil (coming from the West) on Cedar Lake is right where it splits into completely physically separated bike and pedestrian paths.
They've put the stencils at every single path entrance, facing each direction so you can't possibly miss them.
After depressing myself in this way, I decided to go see how the Sabo bridge was progressing. I pass by it every day but I hadn't taken an up close look in a while. What a juxtaposition. I honestly don't understand who wants to make our literally world-class bike transportation infrastructure completely useless after we've already spent so much money on it.
Just to amuse myself on the way to the bridge, I tried going 10mph for a while.
I can't do it. Even in my lowest gear, once I get the cadence over 80 on the flats, I'm speeding.
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KirkLogan
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:47 pm |
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Fender BenderJoined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:23 amPosts: 103Location: Edina commute to Minneapolis
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Specq, maybe for now we should just assume that the 10 mph signage is just for the motorized support vehicles. You know, the ones that spray paint the stenciled 10 mph signage.
FYI, I wrote to the metro reps listed on the MN State Bicycle Advisory Committee site this afternoon. I cited concerns expressed overall by this thread and I also recommended instead to use "pass with care" if they really feel a need for cautionery signage on the path instead of speed limits. I got this reply from Michael H.:
"Kirk: Thanks for your note. I live in the south metro, and don't ride those particular trails with any frequency. I suspect they're under the management of Minneapolis or the county. I've copied this note to Don Pflaum in Minneapolis who likely will be better-equipped to receive and incorporate your perspectives into planning. Take care, Michael. "
I will share any news I find out.
Last edited by KirkLogan on Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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euterpe
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:47 pm |
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I know this guy who named his dog MerckxJoined: Wed May 23, 2007 7:51 pmPosts: 2608Location: Hamline-Midway
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skyrover wrote: How much is a ticket when you get busted?
Two years ago I got ticketed at Lake Harriet for speeding on the bike path and it was $15. When then cop "pulled me over" I didn't have any clue as to why and when he said he was ticketing me for speeding, I almost laughed. If I would have known, I wouldn't have stopped. It was ridiculous. It was 7:30 on a week night in November - like any kids were learning to use training wheels at that time!
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