2011: SRAM Rival FD
2012: Shimano Tiaga FD

2011: SRAM Rival compact double
2012: Sugino triple

2011: SRAM GxP BB
2012: Shimano square taper (really? REALLY?)

2011: SRAM Rival RD 9sp
2012: Shimano XT 9sp (yeah, ok.)

2011: SRAM Rival shifters
2012: Shimano Dura Ace bar ends (come the fuck on. This is Salsa, not Surly)

2011: Brooks Pro
2012: Brooks B17

It's a $3,000 bike, why did they switch to such entry-level components? Just bump the price and put out a solid bike, rather than something that's just going to need a string of upgrades.

You don't expect them to fit a Sugino crankset on a GXP BB do you?

No, I expect them to have never switched from the Rival crankset to the Sugino XD. What was wrong with a compact double on an adventure road bike in the first place?

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

I always thought a 94BCD double would be the perfect crankset for an adventure road bike.

sounds like they were trying to build a long haul trucker.

I would buy a titanium long haul trucker...

You're absolutely right mrj. This is Salsa, not Surly. Someone messed up in the consumer panel screening.

Probably trying to hide the fact that frame prices have gone up a lot ?

I used to have 48 ring in that BCD. I think I sold it to someone on here.

Alright, got a reply from Salsa. The Rival build pictured was only that, a picture. It was a build they did for Interbike, and their 2012 build is the same as the 2011 build. I was confused and messed up.

So allow me to regroup. No, they didn't do any blatant downgrading, they just had a misleading picture. My point still stands about the problems with the build. Allow me to pull some extracts from my letter to them:


I think bar-end shifters have a limited market. Obviously, the main market for the big three drivetrain manufacturers still makes them for TT/Tri bikes. From there, they've trickled down to a few other groups. One group is the retro enthusiasts, whose shifter choice boils down to "downtube, barend, or thumbie?" They appreciate that shifting gears on their Rivendell Atlantis feels like a car with standard transmission. They've enjoyed simple indexed shifting for over 20 years and see no reason to spend over $300 on some new gadget that’ll probably just break anyway. But I think integrated shifters are a great controller for a drivetrain. Shifts are crisp, responsive and right at your fingertips. All decent road bikes sold these days now have integrated shifters. Plus, the rebuildability of SRAM's DoubleTap shifters can't be beat.

The square taper is an outdated technology. We can agree on that, right? All fancy, high-end road bikes now use BB30 or even BB90. If it's a frame that isn't meant to be thrown away when the bearing "cups" start to get a little play, it'll use Pressfit30 technology. Even still, any bearing cup that isn't a piece of replaceable metal won't work well in the long run. Luckily, before any of this oversized bottom bracket mumbo-jumbo came along, there was a great technology: the external bottom bracket—the only kind of bottom bracket the legendary and dependable Chris King makes. That company’s stance must mean something.

Obviously, there are a couple of different standards, but the great idea is the same. A larger hollow crank axle will be lighter and stiffer. This is a big plus for a road bike, as it generally means the bike will be more efficient. Indeed, sprinting on a bike with a Hollowtech II or Giga X Pipe feels stiffer and more responsive that any taper will. There's even a thread on MTBR.com where the owner of a Vaya Ti complete says that he is able to flex the crankset/BB enough to get the chain to rub on both sides of the front derailleur. And that Sugino XD looks like it should be on a nice touring bike from the ’90s.

Yes, there will be hills. Yes, a triple crankset gives you a lower gearing preferable for these hills. But this isn't a full-on, oversized-steel-tubing, 26" touring bike either. A compact double mated with an 11-28 cassette should be enough to get over big hills, even with a moderate touring load. Shimano Tiagra makes this bike scream "Surly Pacer."

The Vaya Ti now looks like a Surly Disc Trucker made out of titanium with 700c wheels. That's cool, and I'm sure some people like it and are glad they can get a more classic touring build on a titanium frame. But I've never considered Salsa a company to use old technology. For example, the Ala Carte was a great, super-versatile bike, but the world is moving on from 26" for cross-country use, so Salsa did the right thing by discontinuing it with the rest of the 26" XC line.

I looked at Salsa's website for the Vaya, and here's what they say:



Bar end shifters are a good choice for a long distance touring bicycle.

A possible WTF is a titanium touring bike. I could very well be wrong, since I'm probably not the target demographic for a bike like this, but it seems silly to me to buy a lightweight touring bicycle just to load it down for a tour.

A lot of their bike pics don't match their specs, notably the Fargo

I wouldn't have a problem with a TI touring bike, it makes sense in many ways. Strong as steel but lighter, no potential for rust.

*cough*

I wouldn't have a problem with a TI touring bike either if one showed up in my garage.

But here's how I figure. Rust, outside of a winter bike is probably not a big risk in most places. (YMMV)

Which leaves the weight difference. The 58cm Vaya Ti is 1787g + 1010g (frame + fork). The 58cm Vaya (steel) is 2409g + 1010g (frame + fork). The difference between the two touring frames (titanium Vaya vs steel Vaya) is 622 grams. The price difference between the two frames is $1400 (using google shopping results).

I think, for a touring setup, I could shave off more than 622 grams if I spent the $1400 price difference on lighter touring gear.

Which probably goes to show that I'm not the target demographic for this bike if I worry about a $1400 price difference.