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< Infrastructure ~ There once was a bridge named Sabo |
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liquified
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:59 pm |
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Sheldon WannabeJoined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:50 pmPosts: 168Location: MPLS
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http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/news/2012/02/23/opinions-sabo-bridge-thingIn terms of resurrecting the "Why did we build it in the first place?" discussion... Sabo was only $5 million, pennies compared to other projects, but for half or less you could have upgraded the Hiawatha pedestrian crossing with all the wiz-bang LED lighting and fancy pavement one could ask for. Sabo did not provide an uninterrupted crossing because it still requires a crossing at 28th. In fact it is causing more brake wearing due to the stopping needed coming down from the long decline. Sabo takes riders away from the existing 24th Street bridge two blocks north, creating redundant infrastructure. Sabo disconnects riders from cars, drivers never "interact" with bicyclists on Hiawatha, a shame given that many Hiawatha drivers are suburbanites who could use a reminder. Sabo reinforces the perception that bicycles require elaborate segregated facilities and should not share the road. In the perspective of commuting, Sabo did not make crossing Hiawatha more efficient. Time is wasted traveling north of the trail and going up a hill. It's a long stressful climb in both directions with the west-east direction twice as long a climb. Hiawatha crossers often point out they can match or beat people using the bridge. The price tag of Sabo is more factoring improvements done to the 28th crossing. Sabo is just barely wide enough to provide bicyclists a path in each direction. It often creates bottlenecks during busy times due to differing skills of riders. The overall trail here is full of blind spots, from the turns at both ends of the bridge to the 28th crossing next to the building. Sabo's contribution to crossing safety is questionable given that in it's lifetime it has potentially had a fatal design flaw which could have killed people. The closure of the Sabo has caused no uproar, nor any urgency for its reopening. So the question is does the failure of a symbolic bridge teach us a lesson about prioritizing investment that achieves few goals, mostly civic pride, or would this question never need to be asked if the bridge hadn't failed in the first place?
_________________ I too can command the wind sir! |
Last edited by liquified on Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Shizzy
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:09 pm |
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Can't... stop... doing... the Monkey TagJoined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:22 amPosts: 1369Location: Regina
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always did cross at the light on Hiawatha. I've always felt it to be safer than crossing 28th.
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jim_h
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:19 pm |
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| Could use a bike fitJoined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:53 pmPosts: 1016Location: Old Cyclists' Home
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I don't agree and I always choose the bridge over the on-street crossing.
I would not call it "a long stressful climb" by any means. The real weak point of the design is the need to cross 28th, and it was a very serious shortcoming; but that situation has recently been improved quite a bit.
A bridge is a piece of architecture, and should embody both form and function. The Sabo bridge has wonderful form, and functions well enough. The view from the bridge always gives me a lift. There are actually benches up there; who would want to sit down below, on Hiawatha?
I enjoy riding over it, and find the waiting and scurrying to get across Hiawatha at street level to be a big drag. The amount of bike and pedestrian traffic on the bridge speaks for itself and defines the bridge as a success.
_________________ Probably too old to be posting here but what the heck... |
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Jimperialism
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:05 pm |
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| Paul Sherwen GroupieJoined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:42 pmPosts: 111Location: portland&lake
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jim_h wrote: I don't agree and I always choose the bridge over the on-street crossing.
I would not call it "a long stressful climb" by any means. The real weak point of the design is the need to cross 28th, and it was a very serious shortcoming; but that situation has recently been improved quite a bit.
A bridge is a piece of architecture, and should embody both form and function. The Sabo bridge has wonderful form, and functions well enough. The view from the bridge always gives me a lift. There are actually benches up there; who would want to sit down below, on Hiawatha?
I enjoy riding over it, and find the waiting and scurrying to get across Hiawatha at street level to be a big drag. The amount of bike and pedestrian traffic on the bridge speaks for itself and defines the bridge as a success. I'm with you. I like having a nice lil climb on my route (gets me warmed up for lake->marshall), and it's a gorgeous bridge with a nice view. I can see the points raised in the article/OP, and I think they're valid, but at the same time I like my money-wasting aesthetic architecture (provided it's not a Gehry design). I do wish that there were fewer intersections in general near Hiawatha, but the one at 28th takes less time than Hiawatha and also gives me a much-needed opportunity to be privately self-righteous while watching cars drive through the crosswalk without stopping for me  To be honest, I'd never even tried the Hiawatha crossing until the bridge was closed, and I don't think I'll ever choose to use it again once the bridge is reopened.
_________________ BIKELOVE IN WHOM I SIT LONELY BIKELOVE IN WHOM I DREAM ANGELS |
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Shizzy
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:51 pm |
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Can't... stop... doing... the Monkey TagJoined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:22 amPosts: 1369Location: Regina
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Jimperialism wrote: I like having a nice lil climb on my route (gets me warmed up for lake->marshall), lol, I enjoy the time waiting at the light. Catch my breath, take a sip of water and all that.
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castiron
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:07 pm |
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| SoigneurJoined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:02 pmPosts: 579Location: Saint Paul
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Wonder what it'll cost to tear it down, and maybe, do it correctly with crossings over 26th & 28th?
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Fanatic
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:27 pm |
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Glass CrankerJoined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:14 pmPosts: 220Location: SW Minneapolis
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I'm guessing it's fixable, and I'm guessing the fix won't be too expensive. Might have to do some vibration damping, maybe use thicker/redesigned diaphragm plates.
I don't see how to get a bridge crossing at 28th; there's already a light rail bridge there.
I think it would be more interesting to build a second bridge/elevated ramp off of the East side of Sabo northbound that carries over 26th street; that would eliminate both the hairpin and that ugly crossing of 26th.
Just thinking out loud....
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livewombat
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Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:41 am |
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Secret: wants a tall bikeJoined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:26 pmPosts: 428Location: Minneapolis
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Fanatic wrote: I think it would be more interesting to build a second bridge/elevated ramp off of the East side of Sabo northbound that carries over 26th street; that would eliminate both the hairpin and that ugly crossing of 26th.
Just thinking out loud.... +1 I've wanted that ever since I first saw the design proposal for the bridge.
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jim_h
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Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:10 pm |
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| Could use a bike fitJoined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:53 pmPosts: 1016Location: Old Cyclists' Home
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Fanatic wrote: I think it would be more interesting to build a second bridge/elevated ramp off of the East side of Sabo northbound that carries over 26th street; that would eliminate both the hairpin and that ugly crossing of 26th.
+1 26th is the pits. Worse than 28th. Yes, with ugly street crossings at both ends, the bridge is a bit of an island; but we have to start somewhere.
_________________ Probably too old to be posting here but what the heck... |
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imp7
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Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:23 pm |
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HandslingerJoined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:48 pmPosts: 479Location: corcoran
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A bridge that spans from 26th to the greenway is quite a wonderful sounding dream. But at that point I'm voting for a bike subway instead of a bridge.
_________________ Does whisky count as beer? --Homer Simpson |
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dasunt
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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:03 pm |
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Has recurring nightmare of descending Ramsey Hill no-handedJoined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:00 amPosts: 4390Location: Whipping Cult Central
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imp7 wrote: A bridge that spans from 26th to the greenway is quite a wonderful sounding dream. But at that point I'm voting for a bike subway instead of a bridge. I'm not sure I'd be fond of an underground tunnel from 26th to the Greenway. Especially not at night.
_________________ Things are rarely just crazy enough to work, but they're frequently just crazy enough to fail hilariously. |
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zombinate
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:06 am |
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Spoke TwiddlerJoined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:56 pmPosts: 204
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dasunt wrote: imp7 wrote: A bridge that spans from 26th to the greenway is quite a wonderful sounding dream. But at that point I'm voting for a bike subway instead of a bridge. I'm not sure I'd be fond of an underground tunnel from 26th to the Greenway. Especially not at night. c'mon, project switchblade is something we should all be dying for.
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castiron
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:46 pm |
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| SoigneurJoined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:02 pmPosts: 579Location: Saint Paul
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I already carry a switchblade and wouldn't touch a tunnel there.
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jim_h
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:00 pm |
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| Could use a bike fitJoined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:53 pmPosts: 1016Location: Old Cyclists' Home
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A tunnel would be fine, if we could pay for all the lights, security cameras and armed guards that would have to be in it.
_________________ Probably too old to be posting here but what the heck... |
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Dann
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:45 pm |
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AlleycatterJoined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:49 amPosts: 890Location: Phillips
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jim_h wrote: A tunnel would be fine, if we could pay for all the lights, security cameras and armed guards that would have to be in it. That and the ferry service required when the snow melts.
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