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Snak Shak
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 Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:36 pm |
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 Pretends the bricks at St. Anthony Main are the PaveJoined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:35 pmPosts: 2924Location: So.MPLS
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jim_h wrote: I get that, but was it really necessary to drive a massive fire rig up up on the bridge, instead of parking it at the base and walking up? We won't know the cause of the failure for quite a while, but what are the Vegas odds on 3 vehicles on the bridge - 2 days before the failure - being just a coincidence? Yes. If it were me, I would NEVER walk to a rescue if there was an option to bring the truck, all the PPE gear, the more powerful radio, lights, generators, extrication tools, water, blankets, etc. I have to believe that the design spec anticipated emergency vehicles, snow plows, maintenance trucks, etc. going on the bridge. I really don't think the fire truck broke the bridge - it's got to be a design or construction problem.
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omgmrj
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:47 pm |
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 Dances on the pedals in a most immodest wayJoined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:15 amPosts: 7145
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jim_h wrote: what are the Vegas odds on 3 vehicles on the bridge - 2 days before the failure - being just a coincidence? This.
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JenNastix wrote: You guys ever wonder if we're over-thinking this bike riding thing sometimes? |
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G. Hoffman
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:12 pm |
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 Can't... stop... doing... the Monkey TagJoined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:05 amPosts: 1380Location: Seward
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Snak Shak wrote: jim_h wrote: I get that, but was it really necessary to drive a massive fire rig up up on the bridge, instead of parking it at the base and walking up? We won't know the cause of the failure for quite a while, but what are the Vegas odds on 3 vehicles on the bridge - 2 days before the failure - being just a coincidence? Yes. If it were me, I would NEVER walk to a rescue if there was an option to bring the truck, all the PPE gear, the more powerful radio, lights, generators, extrication tools, water, blankets, etc. I have to believe that the design spec anticipated emergency vehicles, snow plows, maintenance trucks, etc. going on the bridge. I really don't think the fire truck broke the bridge - it's got to be a design or construction problem. My guess is that it is probably a materials failure, which wouldn't have presented itself AT THIS TIME without the added stress of all three vehicles at the same time. Sort of like the 35W collapse wasn't caused by the construction work as such, but the construction work put added stress on compromised structural elements, which caused the failure. But as I was saying to someone yesterday, all the engineers can do is give you odds. "If we build it like this, the odds of it failing in the next 20 years are low enough to be acceptable." Now, low enough is probably 1-in-a-million or better. We just got unlucky and hit the triple cherries this time. Gabriel
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Fanatic
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| Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:46 pm |
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 Glass CrankerJoined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:14 pmPosts: 220Location: SW Minneapolis
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G. Hoffman wrote:
My guess is that it is probably a materials failure, which wouldn't have presented itself AT THIS TIME without the added stress of all three vehicles at the same time. ...
Gabriel
+1 Even if you figure 50,000 pounds for three vehicles (fire engine alone was probably 30000 lbs +, including 6000 lbs of water), that's like 250 bicyclists. Admittedly a lot for the bridge, but not outside the realm of possibility. Remember the pictures of the Golden Gate bridge visibly sagging under the weight of a gazillion pedestrians? They're designed (or should be) for some fairly extreme cases. This will be an interesting failure investigation.
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omgmrj
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:46 pm |
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| Dances on the pedals in a most immodest wayJoined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:15 amPosts: 7145
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Fanatic wrote: Remember the pictures of the Golden Gate bridge visibly sagging under the weight of a gazillion pedestrians? They're designed (or should be) for some fairly extreme cases. I'm trying to find the aforementioned picture, but could use some help. I did find this in the process though: Quote: [The Golden Gate Bridge] was designed as a bending bridge capable of 21 foot sway and a 10 foot sag and can support the weight of bumper to bumper cars and trucks in all six lanes and pedestrians packed on the walkways. I'd have settled for three emergency vehicles, but this is good, too.
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JenNastix wrote: You guys ever wonder if we're over-thinking this bike riding thing sometimes? |
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ChrisAdyNelson
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:03 pm |
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 Regularly rides in ShelbyvilleJoined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:04 pmPosts: 1216Location: Wild Wild West
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http://www.minneapolismn.gov/news/WCMS1P-087996Quote: Light rail service resumes between 38th Street and Franklin Avenue
Hiawatha light rail service resumed to all stations Friday, Feb. 24, following the removal of a pair of compromised cables from the Sabo Bridge. Support structures are in place under the bridge and the bridge recovery team has conducted additional inspections and – working with Metro Transit – determined that light rail service can resume.
Service between the Franklin Avenue Station and 38th Street Station was replaced with buses on Monday, after a suspension cable connection broke loose on the bike and pedestrian bridge, which runs over Hiawatha Avenue and the light rail tracks.
Crews are doing additional testing and inspections of the bridge, which requires the use of Hiawatha Avenue as a staging area, so the road will remain closed until that work is complete. Work will continue through the weekend. As that work progresses, the bridge recovery team and the Minnesota Department of Transportation will determine when Hiawatha Avenue can reopen. The Sabo Bridge itself will remain closed until repair work is completed.
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I didn't say it's your fault, I said I'm blaming you, there's a difference. |
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Fanatic
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:12 pm |
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| Glass CrankerJoined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:14 pmPosts: 220Location: SW Minneapolis
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50th Anniversary walk over the Golden Gate Bridge: http://www.flickr.com/photos/42614915@N00/90062550/http://www.flickr.com/photos/bizzarri/241540172/http://blog.sfgate.com/parenting/2010/0 ... niversary/ Edit: I remember a really good picture of the sag that I also can't find. Been too long. But the point was that the crowd exceeded the bumper to bumper case for the bridge (people packed shoulder to shoulder weigh more than cars packed bumper to bumper), but IIRC the bridge still had 40% margin left, at least ideally.
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Fanatic
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:51 pm |
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| Glass CrankerJoined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:14 pmPosts: 220Location: SW Minneapolis
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There's a picture of the broken part along with some closeups of the cable attachment in the video here. Basically, the cable anchor flange broke off the pylon. I'm no expert, but it looks like metal fatigue, not unlike the example on page 7 of the Rivendell Reader #42, albeit on a much different scale. Regardless whether the cause is design or manufacturing, this is going to take awhile to fix. Months, not weeks. 
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Squire Quigley
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:59 pm |
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 Fender BenderJoined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:00 pmPosts: 75
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Fanatic wrote: There's a picture of the broken part along with some closeups of the cable attachment in the video here. The comments on that CBS page are pretty sad. What is it about the comments sections that only seems to attract tea party cranks?
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hokan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:26 pm |
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Hiawatha is open again, just in the past hour or so.
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Shizzy
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:46 pm |
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 Can't... stop... doing... the Monkey TagJoined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:22 amPosts: 1369Location: Regina
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"But the bridge, the city says, is designed to handle the weight of emergency vehicles.
It can handle up to 20 tons, and right now investigators do not believe that emergency run played a role in the forced closure of the bridge"
That's only 40,000 lbs. I can see that easily attainable with the three mentioned vehicles.
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jim_h
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:55 pm |
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| Could use a bike fitJoined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:53 pmPosts: 1016Location: Old Cyclists' Home
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What I was trying to say is that surely there could be a better, more cost-effective way to get help to a passed-out drunk than to drive a full size fire rig onto a bicycle bridge. There was obviously no fire up there.
I understand that the fire department is an early responder for lots of things. And that the bridge was probably designed to handle the weight of the vehicles - although little is accomplished by testing that assumption, if it just leads to expensive repairs.
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Probably too old to be posting here but what the heck... |
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phaedrus
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:25 pm |
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 Regularly rides in ShelbyvilleJoined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:08 amPosts: 1261Location: Minneapolis
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jim_h
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:39 pm |
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| Could use a bike fitJoined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:53 pmPosts: 1016Location: Old Cyclists' Home
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The Star Tribune has become a bulletin board for the rants of right-wing pinheads and it's depressing. I hardly ever look at the site anymore because even if I don't read the comments, I know they're there, just something bad hanging in the air. It's like walking into a scummy bar in a really bad part of town - you feel uncomfortable and just want to leave.
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Probably too old to be posting here but what the heck... |
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Shizzy
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:58 pm |
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| Can't... stop... doing... the Monkey TagJoined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:22 amPosts: 1369Location: Regina
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jim_h wrote: The Star Tribune has become a bulletin board for the rants of right-wing pinheads and it's depressing. I hardly ever look at the site anymore because even if I don't read the comments, I know they're there, just something bad hanging in the air. It's like walking into a scummy bar in a really bad part of town - you feel uncomfortable and just want to leave. I read it for the Police blotter. that's always good for a laugh.
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