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< Infrastructure ~ Hennepin green lane not "only" for bikes and buses anymore? |
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FreeRangeZombie
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:39 pm |
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 Chronic PinchflatterJoined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:37 pmPosts: 829Location: Your mom's house
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jimh wrote: Flame me if you will, but my sympathies were with the drivers. Too confusing, too many signs, too little time to make decisions and lane changes. I've driven through downtown factors more than I've biked and I don't find the signs confusing. Pretty straightforward actually. Even my first few times through. The only confusing part is what one-ways you have to take to get to point X. If you can't understand the traffic signs and signals you probably shouldn't be driving.
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Stoller
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:22 pm |
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 Thinks "false flat" means low tire pressureJoined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:31 amPosts: 347Location: Northwesterburblandia
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FreeRangeZombie wrote: that's just fucking stupid. Not enforceable? uh.... hows abouts they put some cops there with walkies and call down to the cop cars two blocks down and say "ticket mofo #32 with the plate 123mofo. I gots it on video, so we're good." Just like they do with speeding tickets on a highway during a ticket sting operation. Doesn't seem that hard, and it seems like free money to me. Yeah, but you make it sound as though they want to.
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SDHO
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:32 pm |
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 ClincherJoined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:14 pmPosts: 129Location: Augsburg Park
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FreeRangeZombie wrote: that's just fucking stupid. Not enforceable? I think hokan meant not legally enforceable -- that is, in the unlikely eventuality that a cop actually issued a ticket, it wouldn't stand up in court. Since mode-specific lanes are common (like the bus lanes on Marq2), I imagine what was unusual and problematic was the fact that this lane must also accomodate right turns. How does a driver reasonably know how long they're permitted to be in this lane before making their right turn? I'd say about the length of a right-turn lane -- so half a block or so -- but this is ambiguous. Still seems like the more established facility, as I said in my first response to hokan, would have been a bike/bus-only "shoulder" with right turn lanes marked at intersections where it is possible to turn right (and a "bikes/buses exempt" sign at the right turn sign). I honestly think they would have had a lot more compliance altogether if it were striped as a shoulder (that is, solid white line rather than dashed lane divider). Bonus if the whole shoulder were colored differently from the rest of the pavement, like the red "transit only" pavement indicating the entrance to the I-35W/E 46th St station.
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Stoller
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:29 am |
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| Thinks "false flat" means low tire pressureJoined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:31 amPosts: 347Location: Northwesterburblandia
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SDHO wrote: [I honestly think they would have had a lot more compliance altogether if it were striped as a shoulder (that is, solid white line rather than dashed lane divider). Bonus if the whole shoulder were colored differently from the rest of the pavement, like the red "transit only" pavement indicating the entrance to the I-35W/E 46th St station. The big problem with Hennepin is the varying curb widths that make it difficult to do anything consistently. The current solution may have looked good on paper, but it's a joke for cyclists. I've given up on it personally, and I sympathize with those who say it's confusing for motorists. We lost on Hennepin, but we gained a lot with the CRT bypass. Unfortunately, that doesn't help those who must get into downtown rather than around it. Bus riders did get a lot from the 2nd and Marquette conversions. In general though, motorists are losing ground, a trend I expect to continue.
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FreeRangeZombie
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:04 am |
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| Chronic PinchflatterJoined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:37 pmPosts: 829Location: Your mom's house
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SDHO wrote: FreeRangeZombie wrote: that's just fucking stupid. Not enforceable? I think hokan meant not legally enforceable -- that is, in the unlikely eventuality that a cop actually issued a ticket, it wouldn't stand up in court. Since mode-specific lanes are common (like the bus lanes on Marq2), I imagine what was unusual and problematic was the fact that this lane must also accomodate right turns. How does a driver reasonably know how long they're permitted to be in this lane before making their right turn? I'd say about the length of a right-turn lane -- so half a block or so -- but this is ambiguous. Still seems like the more established facility, as I said in my first response to hokan, would have been a bike/bus-only "shoulder" with right turn lanes marked at intersections where it is possible to turn right (and a "bikes/buses exempt" sign at the right turn sign). I honestly think they would have had a lot more compliance altogether if it were striped as a shoulder (that is, solid white line rather than dashed lane divider). Bonus if the whole shoulder were colored differently from the rest of the pavement, like the red "transit only" pavement indicating the entrance to the I-35W/E 46th St station. gotcha. that makes sense.
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HerculesTRockefeller
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:08 am |
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 My middle name is SchwinnJoined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:12 pmPosts: 4094Location: Quoting Lebowski.
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These lanes and their siblings on First Avenue sparked the creation of the Minneapolis Bicycle Coalition. The silver lining overtook the cloud.
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SDHO
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:15 pm |
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| ClincherJoined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:14 pmPosts: 129Location: Augsburg Park
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I noticed an interesting sight in Edina, in light of this discussion: very similar signs along York Ave (where it carries Xerxes/CSAH 31) and 66th St (btwn France and York). See http://goo.gl/maps/bfdzK. These signs to not allude to bikes, but say, "RIGHT LANE BUS STOPPING & RIGHT TURNS ONLY". Yes, ONLY. And this is on two Hennepin County roads, where I assume there are reasonably vigorous checks on signage. The signs seemed to have a similar level of compliance as the ones on Hennepin downtown. Since they don't allude to bikes, I'm curious if the engineers envision bicycles riding in that lane, or the next lane to the left. I've emailed City of Edina to ask.
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jimh
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| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:16 pm |
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| Cottered CrankJoined: Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:30 pmPosts: 70
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SDHO wrote: I noticed an interesting sight in Edina, in light of this discussion: very similar signs along York Ave (where it carries Xerxes/CSAH 31) and 66th St (btwn France and York). See http://goo.gl/maps/bfdzK. These signs to not allude to bikes, but say, "RIGHT LANE BUS STOPPING & RIGHT TURNS ONLY". Yes, ONLY. And this is on two Hennepin County roads, where I assume there are reasonably vigorous checks on signage. The signs seemed to have a similar level of compliance as the ones on Hennepin downtown. Since they don't allude to bikes, I'm curious if the engineers envision bicycles riding in that lane, or the next lane to the left. I've emailed City of Edina to ask. Yes, those signs have been there for years and are totally ignored.
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