ah! i want to focus on cooking dinner for my housemates, but this thread is twangin my heartstrings!

i feel like a lot of this discussion would be well suited for the Why are WTF spaces/ events necessary? thread

a lot of us understand feminism and patriarchy and oppression, and (i think) any confusion about those things should be discussed in that other thread.

i think this thread could benefit from some discussion about the agency someone has in an experience with someone else behaving sexistly.

i hope that made a tiny bit of sense... i think i can focus on dinner now, mmmmm dal with coconut milk

I speak for us all when I say you can post here regardless of the hardware you keep between your legs.

Thanks!

And isn't punk dead?

Punk is undead!

My problem with your question on Facebook, pic, was that it was directed only to women and assumed a male aggresor. This skews the results in favor of anti-feminine hostility. This isn't to say that it doesn't exist, but rather that a group of anecdotes isn't worth much more than a group of anecdotes and has negligible external validity.

In my experience, groping and frotteurism is allowed by security and audience to varying degrees near the front of the stage; the recipient is usually female and the perpetrator is usually male. But not always.

In my completely unscientific opinion, sexism in punk is probably less than society in general. The opposite is true in hip hop, with a few exceptions.

I wonder what the trans experience is at punk shows.

wut?

Kind of surprised no one has brought up riot grrrl, considering it was the movement to do punk grrrl style because so many aggressive white dudes were dominating the scene.

eta: I guess poorimpulsecontrol mentioned riot grrrl several times. I just... got distracted. Anyway.

My query on FB Herc was directed at women because that's who I wanted to hear responses from with regards to their experiences. The question didn't infer that the male would be the agressor at all, it asked whether women had been groped while in the crowd, surfing, or in the pit. Not if they had been groped by men. I can't respond to your question about trans experience becuase I'm not trans.

I agree with you that women are not the only victims of sexual aggression, they are however more likely to be victims of sexual aggression/assault.

There were plenty of punk women before riot grrrl. I always saw it as a counterpart (not a reaction) to more mainstream grunge that was more threatening to middle America and thus more obscure.

Also interesting: "punk" meant "whore" up until relatively recently. It also meant "gay black male" not too long ago.

also...
"I've got something to say, I raped your mother today, it doesn't matter much to me as long as she's spread" -Danzig/Misfits, One Last Caress

It's quite clear from the song that the lyrics aren't straight-forward. The other verse is about killing baby. I doubt Danzig really advocated either.

Whether he meant them or not (and I like the Misfits), his song lyrics speak of sexual violence against women. It can be construed that he's advocating for the killing of babies and the raping of women.

That's not the only MIsfits song that talks about rape.
"If you're going to scream, scream with me these moments never last. When do creatures rape your face, Hybrids open up the door, ooo baby when you cry, your face is momentary, you hide your looks behind these scars" Hybrid Moments,Misfits
Granted that song he doesn't identify the gender of the victim.

edited once for spelling issues

If we're responding because male-identified people have to stand up for others who are "weaker" than we are, then you should be bothered.

If we're responding because we're showing support and are sick of the same bullshit you are, I don't think it's that bothersome.

But the sheer amount of male-identified voices on this forum might overshadow discussion by WTF-identified people. Perhaps that's why you are bothered. It's making me question things right now: Who has the right to confront -isms and define the problem? I think everyone has has the right and responsibility to oppose oppression, but I can understand the contrary argument that only those directly affected by such oppression have the right to define and decide how to fight against it.

Now I need to some introspection myself.

I'm always torn, too. Especially when you get pro-life women arguing that raped women are obliged to carry the pregnancy to birth. Sometimes gender seems to make a big deal. Sometimes, we're all just fleshy robots with arbitruarily different genitalia.

You mean if I crowd surf people's hands are going to be touching me? eeeewwwwww

Groped by the hands of fate!!!

+1