First off, assaulting me is escalating the situation. Self-defense as a human right far predates the invention of firearms. If you go around threatening people with injury or death, something bad may happen to you someday.

Second, you don't pull a gun out to scare someone. If you are not willing to use it, you damn well shouldn't carry it. You pull it because you are fearing grave bodily harm or death. Period.

Also, nobody has said guns make you safe. They don't. They are a tool that is only useful in very specific circumstances, and only with a lot of training. The cannot make up for an acute lack of situational awareness or poor judgement.

Lastly, you are responsible for your safety, I am responsible for mine. No matter how you try to twist it, my legal actions are not responsible for anything that happens to you at the hand of someone else. I am not making you less safe at all. That responsibility would fall squarely upon the shoulders of anyone committing criminal activity on the greenway.

Actually, yes you are. Every time we yell at a driver and lose our temper, we risk having that driver take it out on the next cyclist they see. It's the same thing with weapons.

There is a huge difference between being an obnoxious ass to a driver and legally defending yourself from an assault. Heck, by your logic, legally defending yourself is no different than, say, running a light and negatively impacting motorists view of bikers.


Like I said, not everyone here is a sheep, though, from what I see, most are.........

But in a way you playing into the culture of fear ( the biggest tool to herd sheep ). I can't understand the the desire to carry around something that heavy (got to shave off those grams) all the time, which would be a reminder of your constant state of fear. Not saying you don't have the right, but my though process rarely includes preparing for violence.

Being prepared is not playing into the "culture of fear."

Thank you for at least acknowledging that, yes, I do have the right. I also find your honesty in admitting that you do not consciously prepare for violence refreshing. It is nice to read that opinion instead of the usual "what do you need XXXXX for?" condescending crap.

FWIW, I find it funny that people will tell you to ignore your own life's experiences and wander around hoping nothing bad happens. I do not always carry, but, when I am riding or walking certain routes at certain times, I do.

Better to have and not need than to need and not have.

Personally I hope that I'll make the right choices to stay safe and much like beeker. But it always depends on the situation and it maybe that inner hippie talking but I don't want anyone to get hurt.

I just have to ask, when and where do you choice to bring your firearm? Where do you feel the must vulnerable in the twin cities?

what a minute... Someone brings a gun with them while cycling into the city?

I must say that is the most nasty, obnixious, disrespectful crap I've ever heard. If you feel you need to pack heat to go into the big bad city, please stay out of my city.

I grew up in Minnetonka Goalie, yes I spent the first god-awful 18 years of my life in your n'hood. And I must say I felt more scared of Minnetonkans packing heat than here in Minneapolis. I feel its more to do with entitlement, and the desperate need to live out "Malibu's most wanted" fantasy than actual fear of their own safety.

Personal story, I sure it will bore the crap out of everyone; but even retired Honeywell VPs manage to get their hands on guns not registered to them. Are you aware of how often a gun owner is shot with his/her own gun? More often that the gun owner manages to fire it in defense!

Now I know why I left Minnetonka. Icky, icky, icky, gross, gun-packing miscredants.

Personally I never feel vulnerable. That doesn't mean I'm not prepared.




I live in the Warehouse district. But I'm glad to know you're bigoted.

Seriously, the guns you have to worry the least about are the ones we carry.

Heck, I work in the big, bad city. One of my co-workers was shot at the bus stop last summer. Someone tried to car-jack me several years ago while going in to work the night shift. (Guess what, despite your ridiculous claims, I didn't get my gun taken away or get shot during that little episode) Truth be told, I actually feel safer biking home at night than I do driving in the neighborhood depending on time and day of the week.

But, it is nice to know bigoted people like you live in the city. You know, the kind of person that judges people by geography.

Oh, and, since you are spouting off bullshit, I may as well call you on it. You don't have to "register" guns in Minnesota. At least try to make your lying bullshit fit into reality a tiny bit, then maybe someone will believe you.......

This seems to fit in quite well for this discussion. #1 ironically mentions exactly what this thread was trying to accomplish.

http://theweek.com/article/index/215623/americas-lowest-crime-rate-in-decades-4-theories

I bet you would if you didn't carry a gun. And so would you, Goalie. And to say you never feel vulnerable? Hah, keep tellin your self that dude. Noone's going to judge you for feeling vulnerable once and a while. It's human, it doesn't make you weak.

Guns give people a false sense of security that they feel naked without. It makes perfect sense really. Feel protected, and you naturally feel more confident. Take away that "protection" and I bet they feel pretty anxious. It's a false confidence. I've lived in the city my whole life. I know how to appear unvulnerable. Just walk like you know where you're going and look people in the eye. But not for too long. That can appear hostile. I can almost always spot a gun carrier. They walk with this inflated appearance. Almost boasting. I'm not judging, I'm just saying I bet with out their gun they'd appear shorter or smaller or something.

Statistically, carrying a gun is more likely to get you shot. Registering guns makes no difference. Most crimes are commited with stolen registered guns. Gun laws aren't the problem. They only give liberals a bad rap and make more hunters (who own shotguns and rifles for hunting) annoyed and vote republican.

Be careful who you call a sheep, Goalie. If you ride a bike in traffic at all, I'm on your side. And using the term "hoodrat" kind of lumps all us city folk into one group, so I can see why alwaysflat would feel defensive and return the geographical generalization.

Youre right tho, heffay, I dont worry about "gun carriers." But I do think that the saying "an armed society is a polite society" is total bull shit. If I walked into a bar carrying, and knew everyone else was too, Id start looking around to try to spot the loose cannon, and who ever he's with would probably concern me too. Then Id start wondering who else might be unstable, all the while thinking I better unclip my holster so I could be ready if some shit went down. Meanwhile, that loose cannon is probably thinking the same thing about you. Now we have a bar full people on high alert just because everyone knows everyone else has a gun.

At least with mace you stand the chance of making the bears run off.

Fine, goalie. Carry your gun. I certainly cant stop you from bringing it into my city. It's your right, and one of the few we have left. But I want nothing to do with it. You dont make the world safer. You make it more hostile.



Lastly. were all part of the same community, city or burbs. I am responsible for your safety and will stick up for just about anyone if they look like they need it. Only being responsible for one's own safety keeps us afraid, seperated, hostile, and alone. Until we start acknowleging that we are all responsible for each other, nothing will change.

Hey all. This is my first post. Been trollin' for a bit, but I really like this forum. Hey!

OK, first I want to be very up front: I want to see these statistics that if you carry, you're more likely to get shot. I would like them from a credible source, like the FBI or an independent peer reviewed source. In fact, I would like to see anyone with "statistics" to post them. Please. Including the statement that you're more likely to have your gun used against you.

I carried my gun for 3 years. Off and on, yes, but I did. I don't anymore because I let my drivers license lapse last year and otherwise don't have a valid state ID, so it has become a home protection device. And many people would state that because I keep it as home protection, it's more likely to be taken from me and used to kill me. These news stories are few and far between, however, compared to the number of gun owners.



Last I checked (which was, admittedly, a while ago), the Gopher Bar in St. Paul had an open carry breakfast once a month, every month, and a sign to encourage carry permit holders ("carry permit holders welcome!") any other time. Everyone knew everyone was carrying, and there's an embrace of sorts. If you have a license, and you know someone else does, then the assumption is that the other person is a "good guy." He/she went through the process and payment (oh does it cost!) to get a permit to carry.

Carrying a weapon is just as unsafe as driving a vehicle. Sure, someone can jack your car and drive it into a group of pedestrians. There is also a (last I checked) 1/125 (I think? if not please correct me) chance of death in an automobile accident, but we don't check and recheck those stats.

I apologize if this is a terrible first post. I don't mean to come off hostile at all, and I'm not angry at all. I'm just tired of "statistics" that aren't. If you have them, I am *very* open to them.

Something I left out: I couldn't agree more with this.

Again, I love it when people tell me to ignore my own actual life's experiences and listen to their internet BS.

Have you ever used a gun in self-defense? Telling someone who has that it was a bad idea to have had said firearm in the first place is not going to win the debate-club finals. Acting like I could never ever possibly need to use a firearm to defend myself is as ridiculous as if I were to assert that everyone should carry one regardless of skill level and training.

The people making it hostile are people assaulting others. Period. I am not responsible for the actions of thugs, nor the consequences resulting from the actions of thugs.

FWIW, I am not out to make the whole world safer. I am, however, taking reasonable measures to ensure my own safety.

Usually those measures are limited to situational awareness, a helmet, and some lights.


The crux of this argument usually isn't about firearms at all, it is about a willingness to use violence in self-defense. Not everyone is. That is OK, we're all different. That said, the right to defend oneself from a violent attack is one of the more basic human rights. Acting like someone exercising those rights is somehow making your life more difficult or dangerous is not only absurd, but morally reprehensible.

Rosa Parks should have just sat the fuck down, because exercising her rights made life more difficult for other people who just wanted to keep on living the status quo.

Wow, that sounds stupid, doesn't it?

I know that when someone brings up Hitler in a discussion he is following Godwin's Law. What is it called when a gun owner compares himself to Rosa Parks? The Glenn Beck Law?